Tuesday, May 30, 2006

Can't We All Just Get Along???

Okay, so I linked to Solaine's blog post about Rabid Freeloaders and I guess I should have read the comments before I did. Yikes! I'm reading along and my eyebrows shoot up into my hairline, my jaw drops, and I lose all coherent thought at the blatant hostility directed toward Sarah McCarty's popularity.

One comment went like this:


:::sigh::: another “no comment” from me, though you need only take a look at my web site to know that I’ve come to the conclusion, if you can’t beat them, run far far away.
Comment by
Ann Vremont — May 22, 2006 #

So I go to said author's website and I'm like.. Huh? There's nothing here? I see nothing. So I read the next comment....


i saw a term “mobette” on one of the links you had, and i think that is a good word (regardless of how the original user might have meant it) to describe some of the frustration an author can have — everyone’s entitled to their opinion on the value of a read (valid or not (hey, I’ll never disclaim a bit of snobbery on my part)), but you get fan flooding for one particular author on boards that are publisher boards or genre boards and not a board for a specific author. So, yeah, we feel a little frustration where we might not see the problem were it our fans causing a flood in our favor.
Comment by
Ann Vremont — May 22, 2006 #

Then Solaine asks what "mobettes" are. Here's the response.. brace yourself, it ain't pretty.

Specifically, they’re one of Sarah McCarthy’s more vocal fans “When an accusation got back to the group that “Sarah McCarty has some devoted fans” the resounding response was a laughing, “Heck yeah!” It was seen as a growth moment. The Mobettes had gone from invisible to known. I even created a pin to celebrate the moment. Along with the Mobette logo, it also says, “Rabid Fan and Proud of it!” ”

Now, I’m trying to think of a situation OUTSIDE OF EROTIC ROMANCE where you can have a book talk on say:

German literature and have it turn solely to a discussion of Thomas Mann
Sticky horror and have it turn solely to Stephen King
Military families and have it turn solely to Pat Conroy
etc etc etc


Try having a conversation on the EC reader list about cowboys — better yet, I’ve seen an established author (different publisher, but she was not there pushing herself, was really incognito) mention she was interested in subbing something Western-flavored to EC and both fans AND an EC editor on the list essentially [if you the author listening to this]said “You’ll never match Sarah’s cowboys so don’t even [fucking] try.”

Holy shit! Was that really said? And moreover, who would say such a thing to another author? Established or not? It continues...

If they love cowboys and they love erotica, why would they want to discourage this person from submitting something? I’ve never heard a huge fan of vampire fiction/vampire erotica say, “ah, God, please, not another vamp book!” But rabid fans give the appearance of actively trying to clear the field of all competition for their author. Granted, some authors are so great that any discussion of a topic will at least give rise to mention of that author, but what I’m talking about goes far beyond that natural reference.

Now, I don’t want to discourage fans from giving their well-liked authors good word of mouth. Authors need it, really really bad. It’s one of the most effective (often said to be the most effective) means of generating sales for them.

And it goes on to say this:

So mobette is a term exclusively for Sarah’s fans? What is the definition though, I mean?
Comment by
Solaine — May 23, 2006 #

you’d have to net one and ask it
Comment by
Ann Vremont — May 23, 2006 #

I'm thinking mobettes are people, not "it"s. That's rude.

darn - I don’t have rabid fangirls. I don’t have rabid anythings, except maybe a rabid fear of spiders.I have gotten a couple letters about the Phallus from Dallas asking how long, exactly, Mitch’s meat was…but I’ll have to give Ciarra credit for the cryptic count;-)Maybe I can rent some fangirls. On second thought, I’m into my tranquility.Zen and fangirls don’t go together, do they?(Oh, and did you get that shameless pimp for the Phallus? LOL)
Comment by
Sam — May 24, 2006 #

That was a great plug, Sam! I’ll have to look into that story.
I have to admit I’m enthusiastic about authors I like, but I tend to be more low-key about it (huh, Ann?). Maybe if I get rabid, at least it’ll bring some publicity to my faves. They say all publicity is good publicity right…
Comment by
Solaine — May 24, 2006 #

Solaine…a phallus is a great plug indeed. Oh…wait, you meant…
Yeah, you’re pretty low-key but you’re, like, the only fan I have, so I’ll take you however I can get you. ;-)
Sam…ya don’t have to rent ‘em … just get multiple email accounts and be ‘em.
Comment by
Ann Vremont — May 25, 2006 #

Now that's just down right snarky. I thought the snarkiness had left the building... but apparently where one author leaves off, another one takes up the slack. *sigh* As far as I know each mobette only uses one email address. Sheesh. Get the facts straight.

Ha!!!Multiple e-mail accounts and be them - OK Ann - You’re hired!LOLOL!
Comment by
Sam — May 25, 2006 #

Ann, I’d tell you to get your mind out the gutter, but that’s where I like it!
Sam - You’ve inspired me to go on a quickie binge, actually. Details to come…
Comment by
Solaine — May 25, 2006 #

Man, what do you say to something like that? All I could think to say was this in my comment:

Wow, anyone else thinking that someone has a problem with Sarah McCarty’s popularity? Holy crap. Who knew? She writes fabulous western historicals, but I, personally, have NEVER said that to anyone who wanted to submit. Hell, give me a good cowboy and I’m happy no matter who the author, and I’m a friend and fan of Sarah’s, so I’m a bit surprised at the hostility here. Yikes.
Comment by
Anne — May 30, 2006 #

I guess it's true what they say, any publicity is good publicity, including where one author's jealousy of another author's popularity is so blatant and just plain petty. And to think people willingly become authors. *shaking head* The fact that you get tell a story of your heart is great and, better yet, you get to make money doing it, but is it worth the hatred and snarkiness you have to endure?

Comments?

14 People Gabbed:

Nicole said...

Well....I'm going to go out on a limb here.

Sarah's fans HAVE turned me off from reading her books. This from the person who has a snippet of her review on the very first page of the print copy of Promises Linger (I think it's still there).

But it started that there couldn't be any actual discussions of the books. The fans wouldn't take anything other than glowing praise and that got kinda old. And the whole claiming characters thing? Just made them seem so clique-ish and their possessiveness was a turn-off.

Of course you can say that none of that has anything to do with the author, that's just her fans, but...she does encourage that sort of behavior. And I just started to slowly turn my back on considering her books when I was looking for things to read.

Anne said...

I have to say if you turned your back on reading her books because of fan behavior, then it's your loss, and a huge one. I used to frequent a certain Yahoo group and I found it was VERY clique-ish, no matter what I said, I was ignored. Now that is clique-ish.

BUT that didn't stop me from reading said author's books. No sir-ee. I still read her books because she's a FABULOUS writer and I don't want to miss out on a book because I don't "fit in" on her Yahoo group or anywhere else she might frequent.

Now another author I could name, but won't (even though KarenS would LOVE for me to, I'm sure) she's just turned me off because of her attitude. She's a total bitch and very proud of it, though in the last six-nine months or so she has calmed down quite a bit. Still, will I buy her books? NO. Why? Her attitude toward not just other authors, but READERS, including HER readers. She didn't care what she said or who she said it to, she just said it. Is it my loss that I no longer read her books? *shoulder shrug* Yes. Have I been tempted to buy from said author? Yes. Have I? No. I just thought back to the "incidents" and that's enough for me to say no way am I putting a buck, two, or three in this author's pocket.

Now if you have instances of that, I can see turning away from authors, or if they change their style. Nothing irks me more.

But because of fan behavior? Nah. I've run into rabid Lora Leigh fans, Jaci Burton fans, and so many more. Does that stop me from buying their books because I don't get along with everyone? No.

It takes more than a few "rabid" fans and some silly behaviors on a Yahoo group to cause me to stop reading one of my favorite authors.

Nicole said...

Well, there was a comment about reviewing that she made once that also went into my decision.

But...I suppose I just gravitate towards authors with less vocal fans.

Amd I'm sure it's my loss, but it is my own decision to make. But I did try to finish up Promises Prevail and for the life of me, I can't.

Anne said...

Ooooh... not a good thing, to make a comment about reviewers to a reviewer. YIKES.

Yes, definitely your decision to make and I do NOT fault you that. Hell, I've refused to read a certain authors stuff too because she snarked me.

And, as a Mobette, I have to agree, we can be quite a vocal group which can sometimes come across as bad and other times good, but either way, everyone has a right to his or her own opinion.

byrdloves2read said...

As one of Sarah's fans (I suppose that makes me a Mobette) I'm stunned to read these comments. I love her writing and stories, but I'm part of her Yahoo group because of the caring and supportive women (most particularly Sarah) I have met there. I too love westerns, Anne, and would never discourage an author from submitting a western just because she might not be as good as Sarah. Good grief, how can we know until she's published. She might be even better. Who knows? So with that comment, I wonder what my fellow Mobettes will say to me.

Rosie said...

I am a huge fan of Sarah McCarty's and while I do check out her Yahoo group from time to time, I've never commented there. It's just never been my my cup of tea.

While I enjoy reading blogs and visiting different groups, I sometimes think we get way too much information...about the author and about visitor's lives. Personally I don't want to know you went to have your teeth filled or about your son's soccer game. However, if that's that groups "thing" I move on. But that is just my opinion.

I guess I don't get why if there are groups like this it such a big deal to people. Finding a group you feel comfortable with is why people join groups online in the first place. To find like minded people and talk.

Personally I like the diversity and difference of opinion and the various discussions. I can leave any place I don't like with just the click of the mouse.

Jaynie R said...

Dude I think you got way too defensive. I didn't read Ann V's comment as a criticism of Sarah...and I know Sam wasn't criticising her. Yes, that incident really happened on the EC loop - i was there. I was also there when far worse was done.

I know not all of Sarah's fans are like that but some of them are, I've seen them in action...and I know a lot of readers like Nicole who have been turned off by the behavior.

I'm just sorry that those few reflect badly on the reasonably normal fans like yourself.

Anne said...

Linda- If anyone says anything negative to you, let me know. I want to know who the hell is acting like a jackass. *G* And they better not, or else! hee hee

Rosie- I agree with your take 100%. Like the group, don't like the group, whatever. It shouldn't change your feelings toward an author. I mean, I don't really frequent any other groups besides Sarah's, popping on and lurking on EC and Samhain, but I still read other authors, and I frequent many other authors blogs... Jaci Burton for one. Sometimes I comment, sometimes I don't, but she always makes me feel welcome when I do.

Jaynie- Maybe I did get too defensive *wry grin* Sorry. It's just I can't imagine how anyone would want do be so bitchy... to an author no less (as if it's not hard enough letting people read your heart and soul on paper. Sheesh!) I mean, I want to KNOW who said that to the other author. That's uncalled for and just plain old RUDE. Each author in their own way deliver wonderful stories. Do I like Sarah's? Yes. Do I read other westerns, historical or not, from other authors? Yes. Does this offend Sarah? No. Hell, it's hard enough lately to find an amazing book out there from an amazing author so I'm ALWAYS willing to try new authors. How else did people stuble across EC? Right? Samhain? Cripes.

I'm being an idealist, but I just want us all to get along.

Jaynie, if you're willing to share the info with me, please email annejg24 @ gmail.com. Thanks.

Anonymous said...

As one of the 'discouraged potenital western writers' spoken of here I have to say that this incident has occured more than once. I've had other incidents with EC editors and authors that were just as negative which is why I've refrained from submitting there. Yes I'm published, in several genres not all of them romance or erotica. Being told that I might as well not try to compete against Sarah, and that my books just weren't going to be romances no matter how much I tried really ticked me off.

I'm remaining anonymous here because I may give EC a go at some point. May. I'm still not sure it's worth my time though I've been assured that the editor who was so rude to me is now gone.

Anne said...

Anonymous- Wow, I'm not sure what to say except I am sorry that happened to you. I can say one thing though, the other authors and even one editor doesn't get the final say on who gets published, that would be whoever offers the contract and I'm thinking that would be Tina Engler or Raelene Gorlinsky.

I say, GO FOR IT and submit to EC. I, for one, would LOVE another cowboy story as they are so scarce lately, and the fact that it's not a Sarah McCarty won't deter me from buying it, and I know for a fact that Sarah wouldn't want it to. I'm always on the lookout for a new author who can tell a GREAT story.

Rabid fangirls... with rabidity to that extent, need to be ignored and/or put in their place. They need to either tone it down and respect the opinions of others, or just shut the hell up period.

byrdloves2read said...

Anonymous, dang, that just frosts my butt. As a western romance lover I'm more than irritated that you were discouraged from competing with Sarah. Besides, it isn't a contest, is it? I thought the idea was, if one author makes a category popular the readers will be clamoring for more. I'm glad to hear the person who discouraged you at EC is gone. PLEASE try again. Pretty please.

Oh and for the record, it has been via Sarah's suggestions I've found many other authors to read. She's generous that way.

Joni said...

Yes Annonymous, please do submit! I'm one who is searching for more and more cowboy stories - purty please??? I'm sorry that you were discouraged from submitting your story there - but please don't throw in the towel until after you've received a rejection letter - which I doubt you will if you're an established author already! Ok, I'm through begging now..LOL

Anneke Smit said...

Hi there I'm Anneke from Holland Europe and visiting your blog
Bye for now and take care

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design , web design , web design , web design , web design , 天狼星廣告設計 , 天狼星廣告設計 , 天狼星廣告設計 , 天狼星廣告設計 , 天狼星廣告設計 , 天狼星廣告設計 , 天狼星廣告設計 , 天狼星廣告設計 , 天狼星廣告設計 , 天狼星廣告設計 , 天狼星廣告設計 , 天狼星廣告設計 , 天狼星廣告設計 , 天狼星廣告設計 , 天狼星廣告設計 , 天狼星廣告設計 , 天狼星廣告設計 , 天狼星廣告設計 , 天狼星廣告設計 , 平面設計 , 平面設計 , 平面設計 , 平面設計 , 平面設計 , 平面設計 , 平面設計 , 平面設計 , 平面設計 , 平面設計 , 平面設計 , 平面設計 , 平面設計 , 平面設計 , 平面設計 , 平面設計 , 平面設計 , 平面設計 , 平面設計 , CIS設計 , CIS設計 , CIS設計 , CIS設計 , CIS設計 , CIS設計 , CIS設計 , CIS設計 , CIS設計 , CIS設計 , CIS設計 , CIS設計 , CIS設計 , CIS設計 , CIS設計 , CIS設計 , CIS設計 , CIS設計 , CIS設計 , 虛擬主機 , 虛擬主機 , 虛擬主機 , 虛擬主機 , 虛擬主機 , 虛擬主機 , 虛擬主機 , 虛擬主機 , 虛擬主機 , 虛擬主機 , 虛擬主機 , 虛擬主機 , 虛擬主機 , 虛擬主機 , 虛擬主機 , 虛擬主機 , 虛擬主機 , 虛擬主機 , 虛擬主機 , 廣告設計 , 廣告設計 , 廣告設計 , 廣告設計 , 廣告設計 , 廣告設計 , 廣告設計 , 廣告設計 , 廣告設計 , 廣告設計 , 廣告設計 , 廣告設計 , 廣告設計 , 廣告設計 , 廣告設計 , 廣告設計 , 廣告設計 , 廣告設計 , 廣告設計 , seo , seo , seo , seo , seo , seo , seo , seo , seo , seo , seo , seo , seo , seo , seo , seo , seo , seo , seo , seo , 網站優化 , 網站優化 , 網站優化 , 網站優化 , 網站優化 , 網站優化 , 網站優化 , 網站優化 , 網站優化 , 網站優化 , 網站優化 , 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